1 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,080 You don't send a swan down a sewer to catch a rat... 2 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:15,120 ..you send a bigger rat. 3 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:17,920 The US government spends 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,400 billions of dollars fighting powerful Mexican drug cartels. 5 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,320 They have a heavy investment and they're willing to kill for it. 6 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,360 But the Americans stand accused getting too close to 7 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,760 some of the world's most notorious criminals. 8 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,680 They are making deals with them, they are in bed with the enemy. 9 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,360 The big question here is what does cocaine and heroin trafficking 10 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,000 have to do with US national security? 11 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:50,880 WOMAN WAILS 12 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,920 As a brutal drug war raged in Mexico, American law enforcement 13 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:56,320 helped arm the gangs. 14 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:04,480 We watched over 2,500 firearms go south to Mexico. 15 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:11,400 Another popular gun with the cartel buyers was the AK-47 pistol. 16 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,080 Could be handled very easily. 17 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,880 I saw them trying to hide it and trying to cover it up. 18 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,640 But with cocaine and heroin still flooding the streets, 19 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:28,840 many are now questioning the true cost of America's war on drugs. 20 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,040 Their criminal policy has been a failure, 21 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:33,120 from the US government's standpoint. 22 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:37,760 But how many millions of dollars of drugs, how many weapons, 23 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,680 how many people will die before they say enough is enough? 24 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,880 For people fighting in the war on drugs, this is huge - 25 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,360 this is as big as it gets. 26 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,440 Chapo is Chicago's public enemy number one. 27 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,720 On the 22nd February 2014, Joaquin Guzman, 28 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,400 the most wanted drugs trafficker in the world, was captured in Mexico. 29 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,040 ..major victory. The arrest of a druglord whose reach 30 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,120 was far and wide. He was cruel, unforgiving in his... 31 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,760 Tonight, US law enforcement is hailing the arrest of the top 32 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,800 drug dealer in the world, after hunting him for more than a decade. 33 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:25,720 Guzman, known as El Chapo - Shorty - was boss of Mexico's Sinaloa Cartel, 34 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,960 and the highest ranking drug kingpin ever arrested. 35 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:36,440 You see his hands-on approach, his ability to control distribution, 36 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,720 his ability to control transportation, 37 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,200 his ability to collect illegal proceeds - 38 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,760 we've never seen anything like it. 39 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,840 With a personal fortune estimated at $1 billion, 40 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,120 Chapo was the first man to be on the FBI's Most Wanted list 41 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,280 at the same time as Forbes Magazine World's Richest. 42 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,560 For America's Drug Enforcement Administration, the DEA, 43 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,680 Chapo's capture was a triumph. 44 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,640 When I was told it happened, it made my year. 45 00:03:07,640 --> 00:03:11,120 I was a high school quarterback, a football quarterback 46 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,960 in high school, and it was like I threw the winning touchdown 47 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,920 and we won the state championship, when I heard he was hooked up. 48 00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:20,720 But for some observers of international organised crime, 49 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,000 something about Chapo's arrest didn't feel right. 50 00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:29,280 The typical script was that the good guys are the law enforcement, 51 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,640 trying to protect our kids from the bad guys, and that's the script. 52 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:36,680 It's like a spaghetti western, you know. If you like spaghetti westerns, 53 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,680 you'll buy that, but maybe this script we're being sold 54 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:44,040 isn't really the one we should be paying attention to, that there's 55 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,000 alternative ways of looking at this. 56 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,440 The capture was quite peaceful. 57 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:55,480 He was apparently in his room with another person, not the usual 58 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,720 number of body guards that you would expect a criminal leader 59 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,800 to have around him, no praetorian guard. 60 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:09,080 You cannot believe that one of the most important drug cartel leaders 61 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,480 in Mexico was arrested like that. 62 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,200 No shots, for example. 63 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:21,280 He was sleeping in a house with just one bodyguard. I mean, come on - 64 00:04:21,280 --> 00:04:26,800 even when they go to lunch, they go with 20, 40 bodyguards, 65 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:31,640 or when they go to the bathroom. It's incredible. It's just incredible. 66 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,320 So why would Chapo Guzman, a man with a vast private army 67 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:41,200 under his command, fall meekly into the hands of the authorities? 68 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,040 Is there another story behind his capture? 69 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,600 Stretching 2,000 miles from Texas to California, 70 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:05,200 the US-Mexican border is the world's greatest drug-smuggling frontier. 71 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,640 Mexico's border towns are at the centre of a trade 72 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:12,680 worth billions of dollars a year. 73 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,960 But the cradle of Mexico's drug business lies further inland, 74 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,720 in the western state of Sinaloa. 75 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:27,000 With its remote valleys and high sierra, Mexican bandits have grown 76 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,720 and trafficked narcotics from here for decades. 77 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,600 It is the home of the world's most powerful organised crime group. 78 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,520 The Sinaloa Cartel is a very sophisticated enterprise, 79 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,560 criminal enterprise, and is composed of a board, 80 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,640 a board where Chapo Guzman was one of the members of the board. 81 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,600 They work through franchises, far beyond Mexico, 82 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,520 with presence in 58 countries. 83 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,840 The Sinaloa Cartel's traditional business involved 84 00:06:00,840 --> 00:06:03,000 trafficking marijuana and cocaine. 85 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,920 But back in 2008, the focus shifted to another commodity - 86 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,000 heroin, produced in Mexico. 87 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,720 Chapo summoned his key lieutenants 88 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,880 to a secret meeting in the mountains. 89 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,640 The guests included Pedro and Margarito Flores, 90 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,600 Mexican-American twins from Chicago. 91 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,720 The cartels are there for the same reason 92 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,840 many Fortune 500 companies are there. 93 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:36,760 It is a transportation mecca for them. 94 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,240 It really is a logistical home run in terms of a business, 95 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,000 whether it's legit or not. 96 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,680 The Sinaloa heroin would be trafficked through Chicago. 97 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,600 The Flores twins operated out of a Mexican enclave 98 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,480 called Little Village. 99 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,560 They distributed the product through a Chicago street gang 100 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,360 with more than 5,000 members. 101 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,800 The also controlled networks in cities across the US 102 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,680 capable of shifting up to two tonnes of drugs a month. 103 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,800 John DeLeon and Gal Pissetsky are criminal defence lawyers. 104 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:29,560 We represent the guilty, the innocent and anybody in between. 105 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,200 Mobsters, anybody who's charged with a crime. 106 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,720 The rapid rise of the Flores twins was well known in the city. 107 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,200 It's no different than a young man 108 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,040 who starts to work at a company and works his way up the ladder. 109 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,080 They were good at what they did, 110 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,520 they made a lot of money for the bosses, 111 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,680 so they got promotions, they got trusted more and more, 112 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,600 with larger amounts. 113 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:03,200 But there was a hitch in the Sinaloa Cartel's heroin plan. 114 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,000 The DEA was seemingly one step ahead. 115 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,600 Somehow, they knew all about the meeting in the mountains 116 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,160 and the Chicago heroin plan. 117 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,040 Someone had turned. 118 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,760 The Flores brothers - people that brought into Chicago 119 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:25,720 tonnes of cocaine, marijuana, heroin - 120 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,280 they turned into what we call snitches. 121 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:32,880 They're probably the biggest informers that the United States, 122 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,120 especially here in Chicago, have ever produced. 123 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,360 You have to look at this way - an old-time cop told me years ago, 124 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:41,600 um... 125 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,880 you don't send a swan down a sewer to catch a rat... 126 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,200 ..you send a bigger rat. 127 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,840 If there's a truism in the drug war that I've discovered 128 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:52,480 is the badder you are, 129 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,880 the more valuable you are to the government as an informant, 130 00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:00,120 because you are further up the food chain and you have access 131 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,080 to more information and you can help make cases against more people. 132 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,080 And that's precisely the position 133 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,480 the Flores brothers found themselves in. 134 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,600 As two of America's biggest drug traffickers, the Flores twins 135 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,040 could have expected to spend the rest of their lives in prison. 136 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,920 But that's not always the way the US justice system works. 137 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,400 What they say is, "You give us the information, 138 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,560 "you tell us what it is, 139 00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:31,480 "and at the end we'll see, if you cooperated with us enough, 140 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,520 "if you gave us enough information, then we'll see 141 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,800 "if we're going to give you your deal." 142 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:41,400 The twins provided information that helped convict around a dozen 143 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,160 of their own associates and indict several more. 144 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:50,360 For them to put away - which they have - put away other individuals 145 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,000 who've done much less than they have, 146 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,320 for 10, 15 years, 20-year sentences, 147 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,680 that's not justice. That's not justice. 148 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,360 It's now thought that the Flores twins 149 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,560 could be out of jail by the age of 40. 150 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,080 The Flores brothers were facilitating the movement of tonnes of cocaine 151 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,400 and heroin into the US market... 152 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,920 ..and dealing directly with Chapo Guzman and the Sinaloa organisation. 153 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:22,160 They were at that level, and hence perfectly placed to betray them. 154 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,760 But despite the twins' information, 155 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,440 Chapo Guzman and the leaders of the cartel remained free, 156 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,560 seemingly untouchable. 157 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:34,840 And their heroin business boomed. 158 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,760 We're driving east on the Eisenhower Expressway. 159 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,400 It has the nickname of the Heroin Highway. 160 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:51,200 It's travelled oftentimes by people from the outlying areas, 161 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,360 the suburbs, travelling into Chicago to purchase narcotics, 162 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:55,760 primarily heroin. 163 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,040 This guy might be serving somebody up in front of us here. 164 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,440 Within blocks of this highway, 165 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:08,360 you purchase about a tenth of a gram of heroin for $10, roughly. 166 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:12,200 Former Illinois State Police colonel Mark Piccoli 167 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,480 has witnessed Mexican heroin flood into Chicago. 168 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,000 You see down the street up there - it could be a drug transaction. 169 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,880 For a long time, heroin wasn't a problem, 170 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:27,080 wasn't THE problem that it is now in Chicago and the suburbs. 171 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:28,560 Three guys on the corner. 172 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:30,920 That guy up on the porch just hanging out too. 173 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:35,680 The scourge of cheap heroin 174 00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:39,440 has spread from Chicago's inner city to its middle-class suburbs. 175 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,680 Those looking to purchase drugs from the suburbs 176 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:46,120 are back on the Eisenhower Expressway, 177 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,680 back on their way to wherever they're from in minutes. 178 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,520 You want to look around at the scene and determine - 179 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,320 is it an overdose or not? 180 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:03,840 Heroin has changed so much. It's cheap, it's extremely strong... 181 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:09,400 ..and because it's strong, people don't have to inject it any longer. 182 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,160 People believe that because you're smoking it 183 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,600 or because you're snorting it - number one, you can't be addicted, 184 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,720 and number two, you can't die of an overdose, 185 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,080 because you're snorting it. Both of those are wrong. 186 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,640 Last year, in the Chicago suburb of DuPage County, 187 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,160 there were more deaths from heroin overdoses 188 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,440 than homicides and traffic accidents combined. 189 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:37,720 We had one body every day coming in to our morgue of a drug overdose, 190 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,800 and I and all of our staff here were just shocked. 191 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:43,840 We just were like, what was going on? 192 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,480 Most of the dead are victims 193 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:49,920 of the drugs supplied by the Sinaloa Cartel. 194 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,840 It has become a multinational corporation 195 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,440 which by some estimates generates $100 million a month. 196 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:00,920 The huge quantities of illegal cash 197 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,320 are usually shipped by lorry back to Mexico. 198 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,960 From there, the dirty money needs to be laundered 199 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,400 before it can be put to use by the bosses. 200 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:16,120 The most incredible thing about the Sinaloa Cartel 201 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:21,600 is that at the end, when the Sinaloa network launders the money, 202 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,560 they seek, they look for, the rule of law, 203 00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:28,520 they try to protect their money into the most secured 204 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,720 and legally protected markets in the world, the US and Europe. 205 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,440 Laundering the Sinaloa drug money proved astonishingly easy. 206 00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:42,120 For several years, they simply deposited the cash in the bank, 207 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:47,600 including the Mexico City branch of Britain's biggest bank, HSBC. 208 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:54,080 In 2012, HSBC was found guilty of failing to stop money 209 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:58,160 being laundered between its Mexico and US offices, 210 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,840 including at least $881 million 211 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,840 of cash deposits from the Sinaloa Cartel. 212 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,160 Banks are not subject to enough regulations. 213 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,000 The intervention is not enough 214 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,040 to control the tsunami of dirty money coming into the legal market. 215 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:25,040 By 2013, Chicago's heroin epidemic was running out of control. 216 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,200 The public demanded action. 217 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:32,120 Chicago's Crime Commission responded by declaring the Sinaloa leader, 218 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,720 Chapo Guzman, public enemy number one - 219 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:37,680 the first man to be given the title 220 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:43,280 since Al Capone terrorised these same streets in the 1920s. 221 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,880 What Al Capone was to beer and whisky during prohibition, 222 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,400 Guzman is to narcotics. 223 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,240 He's responsible for the death of over 10,000 people 224 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,240 and he not only has killed many of those, he has brutally 225 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,520 tortured them, mutilated them. 226 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,960 It's a caricature of organised crime, 227 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:07,240 but to some degree, if you want to focus public attention, 228 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,080 the public's attention on one problem, 229 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,960 you always bring the face of one person, 230 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,160 to make it equivalent to that problem, 231 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,360 and that's the face of El Chapo Guzman. 232 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:23,400 But despite the heat, Chapo Guzman still seemed untouchable. 233 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,640 Just how the world's most wanted drug lord had remained at large 234 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:29,600 for 13 years was a mystery. 235 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,400 Many thought the answer lay south of the border, in Mexico. 236 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:46,120 In 2006, the Mexican government declared war on the drug cartels, 237 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,880 sending troops to the border to try and crush their power. 238 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:51,920 WOMAN WAILS 239 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,280 SHE CRIES OUT IN SPANISH 240 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,840 A violent drug war erupted. 241 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,360 Mass killings, torture, even beheadings 242 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,120 brought terror to the streets as rival gangs 243 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,600 fought for control of the lucrative smuggling routes into the US. 244 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,160 SHE SHOUTS 245 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,280 The Sinaloa Cartel was coming into 246 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,120 cities and border crossing areas 247 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,040 where the drugs moved through that traditionally had 248 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:24,840 been controlled by other players, and it wasn't done in a nice way - 249 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,040 it was a very bloody invasion. 250 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,360 As the Sinaloa Cartel's war of conquest dragged on, 251 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,160 more than 100,000 Mexicans were killed in the space of five years. 252 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,480 It looked like the government had lost control of the country. 253 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,760 For the Mexican authorities, something had to be done. 254 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:51,320 One strategy that's been used before in history is "divide and conquer" - 255 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:57,040 you know, we will use one group to attack another group. 256 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,360 That saves our resources and accomplishes our ends, and at the end 257 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,600 we'll wipe...we'll clean up the final group. 258 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:04,680 The Sinaloa organisation was 259 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,280 subject to a very, very small number of detentions. 260 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,720 On the one hand, it was the largest criminal organisation in Mexico. 261 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:15,000 On the other hand, if you look at the statistics, criminal statistics, 262 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,040 they were not subject to the same number of detentions 263 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,080 as any other organisation in Mexico. 264 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:24,160 So we started to become suspicious that they were 265 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,920 benefitting from some kind of protection. 266 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,080 Many Mexicans came to believe that their government 267 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:34,920 was favouring the Sinaloa Cartel. 268 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,840 A Sinaloa victory would mean an end to the carnage on the streets. 269 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,840 It's something the Mexican government has always denied. 270 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,640 If the Sinaloa Cartel seemed somehow untouchable in Mexico, 271 00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,200 what about America? 272 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,680 Most of the guns used in Mexico's bloody drug war come from the US. 273 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,880 It's the job of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, 274 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,320 the ATF, to stop these weapons flowing south. 275 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,200 Our mission was to prevent illegal firearms trafficking, 276 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,400 from Phoenix to Mexico, that was going in support of the violence 277 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,640 being committed by the Mexican drug-trafficking organisations. 278 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:32,120 In 2009, Arizona ATF special agent John Dodson 279 00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:35,640 was assigned to a secret operation called Fast and Furious, 280 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,800 targeting the Sinaloa Cartel. 281 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,040 I was very much enthusiastic about it. It was the front lines 282 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,200 of America. Every one of those rifles that we could prevent 283 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:49,640 from being trafficked is not going to be responsible for its percentage 284 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,760 of the carnage that's occurring south of the border. 285 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,160 The plan seemed simple. 286 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,440 Working on tip-offs from local gun dealers, ATF agents would put 287 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:04,560 suspicious buyers, so called straw purchasers, under surveillance. 288 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,760 They would then track the guns and break the gun-trafficking networks. 289 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,160 Mike Detty is a gun dealer from Tucson, Arizona. 290 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,320 He worked with the ATF on a similar operation, 291 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,360 selling guns to buyers acting for the Sinaloa Cartel. 292 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,640 The part that I played, as a corrupt gun dealer, 293 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,000 money was my main concern. Money was all that mattered to me 294 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,040 because I, as a gun dealer, I had to have a motivation to sell 295 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:39,000 to these people and not worry about what the law is, and so forth. 296 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,000 It was just a role that I played and it seemed to be believable. 297 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:45,920 OK, so we're going hot now. 298 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,120 On a typical night, a buyer would arrive and usually he'd have 299 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:03,600 a sack or a garbage bag that had a lot of cash in it. 300 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,200 I would have the living room arranged 301 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:11,720 with stacks of guns, varieties of AK-47s, AR pistols - 302 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,760 all the guns that were popular to them... 303 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:18,640 ..and would have stacks, quantities, 304 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:23,720 at least five of each different variety, for them to choose from. 305 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,480 Popular guns were... 306 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,200 ..AK-47s of all different varieties. 307 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:33,040 This one happens to be a Romanian-made semi-auto AK-47, 308 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,720 chambered for the 7.62 x 39 cartridge. 309 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,760 That was the number one seller for these individuals. 310 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:44,200 We also sold different varieties of AR 15s - this one, basically, 311 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:49,000 a semi-auto version of the American military model. 312 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:57,600 Another popular gun with the cartel buyers was the AK-47 pistol. 313 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,680 These are popular because they could easily be concealed under a coat. 314 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:06,760 They could handled very easily inside of a car, 315 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,200 tight doorways and so forth... 316 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,360 with a 30-round mag or even a 75-round drum mag... 317 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,000 ..they could put a lot of lead down range quickly. 318 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,440 Within weeks, Operation Fast and Furious 319 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,760 seemed to be paying dividends. 320 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,400 John Dodson and his team had identified a network that was 321 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,400 buying hundreds of assault rifles for the cartel. 322 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,640 We got notified by one of the gun shop owners that 323 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,680 one of the individuals that had been identified as the straw purchasers 324 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:45,160 was in there about to make a purchase of 10 or 15 AK variants. 325 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,840 We watched the target as he comes out of the gun shop, 326 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:54,080 trip after trip, loading 10 or 15 AK-47 rifles into his vehicle. 327 00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:57,160 When he leaves the gun shop parking lot, 328 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,360 we know that there's an arrest imminent. 329 00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:01,800 We cannot allow him to leave with these firearms. 330 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,480 We know they are about to be trafficked, and they'll end up 331 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,880 in the hands of in the most violent criminal organisation 332 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,120 that this continent has ever seen or had to deal with. 333 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:16,920 It was time for the take down - 334 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,920 catching the buyers in the act and destroying the network. 335 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,160 When he leaves the parking lot, as we are following him 336 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,400 we began to get ready to put on our tactical gear on. 337 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,440 We strap on our guns belts, our police insignia. 338 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,200 In our minds, an arrest is imminent, 339 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,600 we cannot allow the suspect to go with these firearms. 340 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,800 We get to a location that's tactically sound to take him off 341 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,400 and get on the radio and advise everyone that that's it, 342 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,480 let's go, and we are told to stand down. 343 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:53,000 It came back over the radio, "Stand down. We are not going to arrest, we are merely going to surveil." 344 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,560 There's a brief pause when we hear it 345 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,120 because we can't believe what's being told to us over the radio. 346 00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:00,920 It doesn't make any sense at all. 347 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,800 And then we have to fall back on, OK, there 's something we don't know, 348 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,600 there is something we're not being told about this. 349 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,440 After that day, we both went back to the office 350 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,040 and asked the case agent, "What are we missing? 351 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,000 "Why are we allowing these guns to go? What are we not being told?" 352 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,440 And we were told quite simply that we're not doing that, 353 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,280 that they are under surveillance and we'll try to get a wire 354 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:24,920 and that this is a big case. 355 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,000 A case that in their minds, could some how potentially topple 356 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:33,920 the Sinaloa cartel and Chapo Guzman and it wasn't ours to understand. 357 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,160 If we didn't like it, it was their call. 358 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,360 Weeks and months passed with no arrests. 359 00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:44,480 John Dodson complained repeatedly to his bosses 360 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,360 as he watched more and more guns being smuggled into Mexico. 361 00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:52,400 South of the border, the violence was increasing day by day. 362 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,680 I asked my boss, "Do you not see the correlation?" 363 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,040 The more that our suspects buy, the more violence 364 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,280 and carnage that's occurring south of the border. 365 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,920 And the only reason they're allowed to buy in the quantities they are 366 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,960 is because we've facilitated it, 367 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,680 and we've allowed them to move the firearms unimpeded into Mexico 368 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,840 and into the hands of the drug cartels. 369 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,360 The guns weren't only killing gang members, 370 00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:20,960 thousands of innocent Mexicans were caught up in the slaughter. 371 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,720 The city of Ciudad Juarez was the main battle ground 372 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,520 for the Sinaloa Cartel's war for control of the border. 373 00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:37,600 Brisa Delgado is waiting for her husband Edwin to arrive 374 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,000 back from his job across the El Paso border in Texas. 375 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,920 They were just 15 376 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,680 when their home town became the murder capital of the world. 377 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,120 In January 2010, Edwin and Brisa went to a birthday party 378 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:20,920 on their street in the outskirts of the city. 379 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,320 At 11 o'clock, one of the kids 380 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,680 who had left the party early saw a convoy of cars approaching. 381 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,920 The cars drew up in the street where the party was in full flow. 382 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,400 A group of heavily armed men now approached the house. 383 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,640 The gunmen opened fire on the helpless teenagers. 384 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,240 When the shooting stopped, 15 people, mostly teenage kids, 385 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,600 lay dead or dying. 386 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,000 Alonzo Encino came running to look for his sons. 387 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,400 The gunmen had mistaken the partygoers for a rival gang. 388 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,400 THEY SPEAK SPANISH 389 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,240 The families of the victims are now campaigning for justice. 390 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,840 They have obtained a government document that suggests 391 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,040 at least three of the guns used in the attack were 392 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,960 part of an American gun-tracking operation. 393 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,680 During the month the massacre took place, 394 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,360 nearly 1,000 people were murdered in Mexico's drug war. 395 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,440 But the spiralling loss of life 396 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,440 had no impact on the Fast And Furious operation. 397 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,520 Oh, he's got a whole bunch of cases that we're recording. 398 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,640 As this undercover footage shows, 399 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,040 guns continued to flow to the Sinaloa Cartel. 400 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,400 The ATF watched without making a single arrest. 401 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,520 He is going back into the store. 402 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:16,960 He is out again 403 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,640 carrying another, it appears to be five boxes, 404 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,480 hard-case Pelican that would hold a pistol. 405 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,760 Trunk is closed, he is backing up now, 406 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,800 looks like he's going southbound through the parking lot. 407 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,400 He's backing out southbound. 408 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,120 Over the 14 months that investigation was going on, 409 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:44,680 we watched over 2,500 firearms go south to Mexico. 410 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,040 There were several times, whenever a high profile murder 411 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,120 happened along the US-Mexico border, the case agent and supervisors, 412 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,320 they got scared. They got scared. 413 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,800 I heard them walk around and say, "I hope it's not one of our guns." 414 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,000 But it was a death on the US side of the border 415 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,800 that would finally blow open the whole operation. 416 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,000 I was a teenager raised along the Mexican border 417 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,560 and grew up riding horses in rough country like this. 418 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,800 We could camp out under the stars. 419 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:28,040 One never really thought about danger from Mexico back then. 420 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,920 My, how times have changed. 421 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,760 Ron Colburn is the former deputy chief 422 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,680 of the United States Border Patrol Agency. 423 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,760 Those who work this area, smuggle this area, 424 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,600 tend to bring in the marijuana and the cocaine. 425 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,800 They have a heavy investment and they are willing to kill for it. 426 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,040 The Sinaloa Cartel treats these border-smuggling routes 427 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,280 as its own turf. 428 00:32:55,280 --> 00:33:00,680 It sends gangs, so-called rip crews, to prey on rivals' drug carriers. 429 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,240 This is it. 430 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,280 Just before Christmas 2010, a US border patrol unit 431 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,720 came across a heavily armed Sinaloa rip crew. 432 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,920 This is basically where the rip crew was halted by the border patrol. 433 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,080 It was close to midnight, nearly December 15th, 434 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:27,080 as the border patrol agents detected sounds coming from the canyon. 435 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:32,240 The point man who was on observation just on this hillside spoke out 436 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,480 and said, "Five." 437 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,200 Then he said, "Guns." 438 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,320 Meaning they were in fact armed. That's who they were looking for. 439 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,640 The border patrol agents challenged the men with the guns... 440 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,200 HE SPEAKS SPANISH 441 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,320 "Stop! Border patrol." 442 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,320 And basically that is when all hell broke lose. 443 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,000 The rip crew shooting up the hill 444 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,320 and the border control agents returning fire down the hill. 445 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:04,760 They secured the area and found Brian dying at the scene. 446 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,640 As the AK47 rounds began to hit near him. 447 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,080 he rolled for greater cover and that's when the one got him 448 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,400 beneath his vest. 449 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,160 They body-carried him all the way up these canyons until they could 450 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:23,280 find a spot flat enough for a medevac helicopter to pick him up. 451 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,080 By then he had no pulse. 452 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,560 NEWS: 'A US border patrol agent has been shot and killed 453 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,800 'near the Arizona/Mexico border...' 454 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,400 'One US officer dead. His name was Brian Terry.' 455 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,800 '..gun battle ensued and Officer Terry was shot and killed.' 456 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,960 In December of 2010, I was getting ready for work and I heard 457 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,800 on the news that a border patrol agent had been killed. 458 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,040 Another agent called me and told me 459 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:55,480 that firearms at the scene of the border patrol agent's murder 460 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,560 was traced right back to the Fast And Furious investigation. 461 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,160 They were guns we'd allowed to walk as part of that case. 462 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,680 It looked like the truth about Fast And Furious would finally break. 463 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,440 When I got to work and logged into my computer systems, 464 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,400 I had been denied access to the Fast And Furious Case. Instantly. 465 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,280 I had it the day before, but some time between 466 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,000 when the border patrol agent was murdered 467 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,960 and I got to the office that morning, I no longer had access. 468 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,600 The cover-up had begun. 469 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,680 The ATF was distancing the two investigations. 470 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:36,160 It was clear to me they did not want the Fast And Furious investigation 471 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,640 to be linked to the border patrol agent's murder at all. 472 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,640 I saw them trying to hide it 473 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:47,360 and trying to cover it up and that compelled me to act, to do something. 474 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,160 Cos that's not who we are. That's not what we do, right? 475 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,240 We're allowed to make mistakes, but we're not allowed to cover shit up. 476 00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:56,920 Dodson decided to blow the whistle. 477 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,760 I tried every sanctioned avenue that I ever knew of, 478 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,800 you know, to blow the whistle, throughout my chain of command, 479 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,840 throughout my agency, through the Department of Justice, 480 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,880 through the office of the Inspector General... 481 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,760 Finally, a committee of the US Congress launched an investigation. 482 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,440 They demanded the release of thousands of documents 483 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,280 relating to Operation Fast And Furious. 484 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,080 Senior officials from the US Department of Justice 485 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:25,920 were called to give evidence. 486 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,360 Thank you for inviting me to testify 487 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,000 and I'd be pleased to answer your questions. 488 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,640 Sir... 489 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,480 if you're going to count pages like this as discovery, 490 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,880 you should be ashamed of yourself. The only thing that this says is, 491 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,400 "Internal use only and not for dissemination outside the ATF." 492 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,440 That's NOT discovery. 493 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,040 The pages go on like this for ever. 494 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,560 You've given us black paper instead of white paper, 495 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,200 you might as well have given us a ream still in its original binder. 496 00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,720 I... Who authorised this programme that was so felony stupid 497 00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:02,680 that it got people killed? 498 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:04,320 The Attorney General has said 499 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,640 that he wants to get to the bottom of this... 500 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,400 For nearly a year, the Justice Department 501 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,800 denied intentionally allowing guns 502 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,040 to fall into the hands of the cartel. 503 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,720 Eventually, Washington officials blamed Fast And Furious 504 00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:24,200 on the ATF in Phoenix. They said it was a serious but isolated mistake 505 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,640 made by local law-enforcement officers. 506 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,760 They insisted that the operation was a well-intentioned plan 507 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,760 to arrest senior cartel figures. 508 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,400 Tucson gun dealer Mike Detty 509 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,200 had been involved in a similar operation just a few years earlier. 510 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,760 The thing that made me suspicious about this 511 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,800 was that, after we'd have these conversations 512 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,600 about what families the guns were going to 513 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,240 and where in Mexico they were going 514 00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:54,160 and who the top lieutenants were 515 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,480 and the ports of entry that they crossed over, 516 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,280 we kept selling guns, and more guns and more guns 517 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,760 to these same people, but no arrests were ever being made. 518 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,720 So was there more to these secret operations 519 00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:10,360 than a botched attempt to bring down the cartel? 520 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,640 If our goal was to take down a cartel, 521 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,680 to actually topple a cartel, let's take them at their word. 522 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:20,680 How do you do that? Well, you do that 523 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,640 by climbing the ladder, all right? 524 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,480 The next higher rung, the guys that were ordering the firearms 525 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,480 and paying for them, literally placing the orders 526 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,440 like a grocery list of what they want, 527 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,320 turn out to be informants 528 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,760 working on the payroll of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. 529 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,120 INTERVIEWER: The FBI? The FBI. 530 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:42,640 We could never get any higher 531 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,360 because the next rung of the ladder was already working for the FBI. 532 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,280 At the heart of the Sinaloa Cartel's operation to buy guns in Arizona 533 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,800 were two men acting as informants for the US Government. 534 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,800 They had even been paid a quarter of a million dollars. 535 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,280 An unknown percentage of those weapons, 536 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,000 potentially up to $250,000 worth, 537 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,440 were purchased with taxpayer money. 538 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,920 You take the federal government out of this equation, 539 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,760 it doesn't happen, none of it happens, 540 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,200 there's no firearms trafficking ring, 541 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,600 there's no money to purchase them with, 542 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,120 there's no coercing the gun dealers to facilitate the transactions, 543 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,320 there's no opening the flood gates 544 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,760 to allow the trafficking to occur unabated, 545 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:35,400 and there's no FBI informants either orchestrating everything 546 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,120 or just moving the pieces as they're directed by their FBI handlers. 547 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,720 Five years after Fast And Furious, 548 00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:51,800 the streets of Ciudad Juarez are now relatively calm. 549 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,520 Helped by my more than 3,000 guns 550 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,400 provided with the knowledge of the US authorities, 551 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,400 the Sinaloa Cartel has won its war for control of the border. 552 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:08,200 Once the Sinaloa organisation took over the city, 553 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,800 they placed their people, they controlled politicians, 554 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,440 so there's no need to kill so many people as before, 555 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:20,000 but the citizens are still subject to the most serious economic crimes - 556 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,400 extortion, kidnapping and fraud and other types of economic crimes. 557 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,440 That's what Sinaloa Cartel is all about. 558 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,120 The true extent of the US involvement 559 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:33,800 with the Sinaloa Cartel's gun runners 560 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,560 will probably never be known. 561 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,240 For the only time in his presidency, 562 00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:42,680 Barack Obama used his executive privilege 563 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,200 to block the release of certain information 564 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,680 linked to the Fast And Furious operation. 565 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:58,720 Many of the secrets of Mexico's drug war will always remain hidden. 566 00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:02,280 But we now know that contacts between the Sinaloa Cartel 567 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,640 and the US authorities stretch back a long way. 568 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:13,320 In 1998, Chapo Guzman was serving a prison sentence 569 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,560 in a maximum-security jail in Mexico. 570 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:22,280 Chapo sent a messenger to the Embassy, into our office. 571 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,520 He wanted to discuss some things with us. 572 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,920 According to one DEA agent, who wished to remain anonymous, 573 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,640 Chapo decided to make the Americans an offer. 574 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,680 It was three of us that went to see him. 575 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,080 He was wearing a prison khaki uniform. 576 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:44,840 And he was very polite, he was very...very formal. 577 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,280 One of the first things he did was kind of incredible. 578 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:53,560 He dropped down on the ground, like he was going to do a push-up, 579 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,200 and he looked underneath the door 580 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,640 to see if anybody was standing there, outside, 581 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,400 listening that he was talking to these people that he had summoned. 582 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:07,280 In 1998, the Sinaloa Cartel was engaged in a brutal turf war 583 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,840 with the Arellano Felix family in the border town of Tijuana. 584 00:42:13,240 --> 00:42:16,000 It went on for about 40 minutes or so, 585 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,800 just talking bad about the Arellanos 586 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:20,360 and that he knew where they were 587 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,240 and that he could follow them 588 00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:25,400 and that he had people that would tell us where they were 589 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,080 and...and things like that, 590 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:28,920 that he wanted to pass that information. 591 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,160 So we let him talk as much as he wanted to. 592 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,600 Guzman was offering to provide information to the DEA 593 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,240 on a rival cartel. 594 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,400 But he wanted something in return. 595 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,560 I think, probably, Chapo was looking for some type of deal, 596 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,400 that perhaps maybe the US Government was going to allow him... 597 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,080 if he gave us this information, to...to perhaps, er, 598 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,320 reduce his charges or things like that. 599 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,960 We would ask him questions simply like, 600 00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,000 "Well, how would this take place?" 601 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:00,400 And he says, "Well, you know, 602 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,040 "if I find them, I'll let you know where they're at in the general area 603 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,120 "as best as I can possibly find them," things like that. 604 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:11,160 I think he trusted us. I mean, simply the way that he talked to us. 605 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,240 He wanted to see us in the future. 606 00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:17,120 We never went back, but, er, 607 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:18,680 you know, he indicated, 608 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,520 "Well, maybe next time I'll have some more information for you," 609 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:22,520 that kind of thing. 610 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:28,200 In 2001, Chapo Guzman escaped from jail, 611 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,760 allegedly hidden in a laundry basket. 612 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,120 In the years that followed, 613 00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,080 the power of the Sinaloa Cartel continued to grow 614 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,000 at the expense of its rivals. 615 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,400 And in 2009, an arrest in Mexico City 616 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,960 would lead to further astonishing allegations 617 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:54,000 about relations between US law enforcement and the Sinaloa Cartel. 618 00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:59,920 Vicente Zambada - young, technologically driven, 619 00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:02,640 developing strategic and tactical alliances 620 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:08,240 with other criminal organisations within Europe, Asia, South America. 621 00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:10,880 He's a prince within the criminal organisation. 622 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,960 Vicente Zambada was the most senior cartel figure 623 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:18,720 ever to be extradited to the US. 624 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,800 Mexican journalists looked forward to a sensational trial. 625 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,360 As you can imagine, it was a big case. 626 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,440 The son of one of the bosses of the Sinaloa Cartel, 627 00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,440 the most powerful crime organisation in Mexico. 628 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,920 When we saw how many lawyers 629 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,960 were members of Vicente Zambada's defence, 630 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,240 I was surprised. Five?! 631 00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:49,160 And those are lawyers who charge a lot of money. 632 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,360 So it was obvious for me that el Cartel de Sinaloa 633 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,400 was behind Vicente Zambada. 634 00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,440 Because you are arrested and extradited to the US, 635 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,800 the cartel basically forget about you. 636 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,560 You are gone. Not in this case. 637 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,800 Despite facing spending the rest of his life in an American jail, 638 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,080 Zambada appeared strangely unflustered. 639 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,960 Vicente...he doesn't look worried. 640 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:27,480 He was always looking to the eyes of his lawyers, 641 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,480 you know, like, "I am the boss." 642 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:35,760 And I remember the face of one of the lawyers, looking always happy, 643 00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:41,080 like you saying, "Mm, I have a surprise for you, Mr Judge," 644 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:44,120 something like that, it was very strange. 645 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,560 Zambada did indeed have a surprise for the court. 646 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:54,240 Vicente Zambada's lawyers went to the judge 647 00:45:54,240 --> 00:46:00,640 and told him, "Our client wants to get free." 648 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,520 Why? Because it was a promise from the US Government. 649 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,720 Zambada claims that he has a cooperation agreement, 650 00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:12,440 essentially an immunity deal, with the US Government. 651 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,800 And that was like a jaw-dropper, it's like, "What?!" 652 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:21,880 Zambada claimed that he had met DEA agents in a Mexico City hotel 653 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:23,680 and struck a deal. 654 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,200 In return for information on rival cartels, 655 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,000 he would get immunity from prosecution. 656 00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:34,080 The government argued that was not true and there is no evidence of it 657 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,720 and most people would think, "Yeah, this guy is desperate, 658 00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:38,160 "he's facing some hard time 659 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,440 "and he is going to say anything he can to get off." 660 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,840 But as the hearings continued, 661 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,400 the government admitted that the meeting with Zambada 662 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,480 had, in fact, taken place. 663 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,360 So, essentially, right there, that opened the door 664 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,960 to the fact that it was not completely beyond the pale, 665 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:54,520 that there was more going on 666 00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,200 than the government was willing to concede at that point. 667 00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,000 And Zambada's claims went much further. 668 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,520 He alleged that, for more than ten years, 669 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,520 there had been an agreement in place 670 00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,760 between the Sinaloa Cartel and the US authorities. 671 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,280 It was a pretty shocking story to hear. 672 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,320 A partner for Chapo Guzman comes into court and says 673 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:18,560 that the government was allowing him to conduct his business 674 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,720 and bring in drugs into the United States 675 00:47:21,720 --> 00:47:26,320 in exchange for cooperation against other cartels. 676 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,160 It... It was very, very unsettling, 677 00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,400 it was very shocking 678 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,600 and at first, when we heard about it, we didn't really know what to think. 679 00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:40,720 Zambada claimed that there was a regular channel of communication 680 00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:43,040 between the cartel and the Americans. 681 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,800 The go-between was a Mexican attorney. 682 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:51,080 Humberto Loya Castro was a Mexican attorney, 683 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:56,680 who was a confidant of the top leadership of the Sinaloa Cartel, 684 00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,280 Chapo Guzman among them. 685 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,080 He basically worked for the Sinaloa organisation. 686 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,720 A senior figure in the cartel, Castro's role, it was alleged, 687 00:48:07,720 --> 00:48:11,800 was to feed the DEA information about rival drug gangs. 688 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,000 Chapo Guzman and the Sinaloa leadership 689 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:22,160 found Loya Castro a useful pawn for their purposes 690 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:23,840 because what he's effectively doing 691 00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,440 is passing information to US law enforcement 692 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,680 that was then being used against Chapo's rivals 693 00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:35,520 and making it easier for Chapo to, you know, grow his organisation 694 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,400 and take over markets in Mexico. 695 00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,920 I mean, it's a simple business calculation. 696 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,880 For the Americans, the information from Castro 697 00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,560 allowed the DEA to make high-profile drug busts. 698 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,600 For US law enforcement, they were making big cases 699 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,040 and making big headlines in US papers. 700 00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,240 And...as complicated as the drug war is, 701 00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:01,360 most people don't know the difference between the Sinaloa organisation 702 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,760 and the Juarez cartel and the Gulf cartel - 703 00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,440 all they know is a big bad narco trafficker 704 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:08,800 or a bunch of drugs got seized 705 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:13,120 and...and that looks good for US law enforcement. 706 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,800 It's, you know...a bargain that works for everybody. 707 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,960 Sworn testimony from US government officials 708 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,080 confirmed that agents had repeatedly met with Castro 709 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:25,520 over a period of ten years. 710 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:29,760 But the DEA strongly denies 711 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,080 that any deal with the Sinaloa cartel has ever existed. 712 00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:34,680 MAN KNOCKS 713 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,040 Clearly, we do not in any investigation 714 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,760 play one cartel against the other. 715 00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,880 That is just a fallacy, it's been, 716 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,040 er...printed time and time again 717 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,040 and it's just not accurate at all. 718 00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,960 To prove Zambada's claims, his lawyers demanded 719 00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,160 that the alleged go-between, Humberto Loya Castro, 720 00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:56,520 testify in court. 721 00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:03,520 The lawyers of Vicente Zambada said, 722 00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:07,800 "We want the lawyer of Sinaloa Cartel, 723 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:11,440 "Loya Castro, to be witness in the trial." 724 00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:14,800 And I remember the face 725 00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:18,120 of the lawyers of the justice department, they said..."Uh-oh." 726 00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,680 They didn't say, "Uh-oh", but you see their faces. 727 00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:26,880 And the judge says, "Sounds fine, it's fair to me." 728 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,120 I was doing this with my hands - an informant here, 729 00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:33,360 telling everything, this is going to be fun! 730 00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:34,680 A lot of news. 731 00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,760 At this point, the US justice department took a drastic step. 732 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:44,360 They blocked Castro giving evidence, on the grounds of national security. 733 00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:51,280 When they said national security issue with Vicente Zambada, 734 00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,880 it was like, "This guy is not Osama bin Laden, come on - 735 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,960 "why are you doing all of this stuff?" 736 00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:02,200 The big question here is what does cocaine and heroin trafficking 737 00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:05,600 have to do with US national security? 738 00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:10,000 And why is any effort to discover what the relationship is 739 00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,480 between this massive criminal organisation in Mexico 740 00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,320 and the US government, 741 00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:19,040 why is that cloaked or hidden by national security? 742 00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:20,680 It implies that, somehow, 743 00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:25,000 the US Government finds it in its national security 744 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,640 to aid and abet criminal organisations. 745 00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,800 We are talking about Sinaloa Cartel. 746 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,560 It's a real threat for the national security of the United States. 747 00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,280 It's what this government said. 748 00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,440 But at the end, you see, they are making deals with them, 749 00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,080 they are in bed with the enemy. 750 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,360 Vicente Zambada will now never go on trial. 751 00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:56,040 He has become the latest kingpin to do a deal with the US authorities - 752 00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,920 negotiating a reduced sentence in return for co-operation. 753 00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:13,720 America's so-called war on drugs costs billions of dollars a year. 754 00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:16,760 It's meant to protect US citizens 755 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:18,960 from the dangers of illegal narcotics. 756 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,000 The authorities have always denied 757 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,920 that they've favoured one cartel over the others as part of that war. 758 00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,920 And in February 2014, the proof surely came 759 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,560 when Chapo Guzman, leader of the Sinaloa cartel, 760 00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,000 so-called "Public Enemy Number One", 761 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,840 was finally captured in a seaside town in Mexico. 762 00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,560 I tell you what, it was a big triumph for law enforcement, 763 00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:58,000 I applaud the Mexican government, 764 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,440 er...for working with all the US agencies, 765 00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,680 including DEA, and doing the right thing. 766 00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,920 And we got a bad guy in jail, so I think it's great. 767 00:53:07,720 --> 00:53:11,720 I've heard the argument that Chapo Guzman was captured. 768 00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:14,680 That means that obviously he wasn't being favoured, 769 00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,280 but it's not individuals being favoured. 770 00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:19,520 At that particular moment in time, 771 00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,600 there was an interest convergence - that would explain it - 772 00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,480 between the Sinaloa organisation and the US government. 773 00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,640 There's an old saying in Mexico - 774 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:32,000 when a cartel leader becomes so well known, 775 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,080 like El Chapo Guzman, the saying goes, 776 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:36,960 "It smells like a dead person." 777 00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:38,320 It means that usually, 778 00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,720 when you become a very well-known criminal, 779 00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:42,680 your days are counted. 780 00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,520 El Chapo Guzman was captured 781 00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:46,640 when the Sinaloa organisation was willing 782 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:48,600 for that capture to take place. 783 00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:50,800 It was a managed capture. 784 00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,720 It's likely we'll never know the full truth 785 00:53:57,720 --> 00:54:00,920 about the events surrounding Chapo's capture. 786 00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,640 But more than a year on, Sinaloa cartel drugs 787 00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,680 are still flooding onto the streets of America. 788 00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:13,120 There's big money to be made in the drug trade 789 00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:15,200 and as long as there's money to be made, 790 00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:19,160 these cartels and Guzmans and everybody else... 791 00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,280 You know, Guzman gets arrested, it... 792 00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,720 I don't think we saw much of a dent at all, 793 00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:28,200 much of a change. If any, very little. 794 00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:30,840 And I think it's just the nature of the business. 795 00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:32,440 It's all about the dollars. 796 00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:37,320 Everything that I analyse in this case 797 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,400 tells me that the Sinaloa organisation is greater, 798 00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,400 stronger, more expanded than before. 799 00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,240 So, so far, this case shows 800 00:54:46,240 --> 00:54:48,680 that the criminal policy has been a failure, 801 00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:51,080 from the US government's standpoint. 802 00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,680 The war against an international drugs trade 803 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,800 worth $300 billion a year 804 00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,560 appears to be increasingly unwinnable. 805 00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,000 And even veterans of the war on drugs 806 00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,360 are beginning to question how it is being fought. 807 00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:15,520 Ron Colburn is former deputy head of the US Border Force - 808 00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:19,960 the front line in the battle against the traffickers. 809 00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:22,800 There's a practice involved with investigative agencies 810 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:24,240 commonly along borders. 811 00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:27,680 It's the concept where an investigative agency 812 00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:32,080 allows an organised crime group to pass through loads - 813 00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:35,160 the cocaine, the heroin, the marijuana, the weapons, 814 00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:38,080 the illicit gained cash, whatever it happens to be, 815 00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:39,480 walks, it gets way. 816 00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:43,480 It does not get seized or stopped by that law enforcement agency 817 00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:47,160 while they build their case towards some day arresting the person. 818 00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:51,280 But how many millions of dollars of drugs, how many weapons, 819 00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,720 how many people will die before they say "enough is enough"? 820 00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:01,600 Many times, we've got to really weigh the options 821 00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:05,160 of what do we have to do, what are our legal bounds, 822 00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:09,280 safety involved, and we've got to make sure that we always 823 00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,600 keep our eye on the ball on safety and the public interest. 824 00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:14,640 So it is a fine line we walk. 825 00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,720 Gun dealer Mike Detty risked his life 826 00:56:21,720 --> 00:56:23,760 helping to trap cartel gun runners. 827 00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:27,240 I thought I was being a good American 828 00:56:27,240 --> 00:56:29,440 by following my orders, like a good Marine, 829 00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,680 and I did exactly what they told me without question, 830 00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:36,960 thinking that I was doing my part to help take down a dangerous cartel. 831 00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:42,440 But his efforts led to just a few low-level arrests. 832 00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,760 The fear I have is, you know, I still live in the same home 833 00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,840 where I sold all those cartel members guns to. 834 00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:54,880 The longest sentences any of them received was 36 months 835 00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:56,680 so they are all out of prison now 836 00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,880 and I have to think that maybe one out of 30 of those people 837 00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:02,960 would be interested in hurting me or killing me. 838 00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,040 When the doorbell rings, my blood pressure goes up 839 00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:08,480 cos I just have no idea who's on the other side of the door 840 00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:13,160 and I have to think, you know...is this the one thing 841 00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:15,560 I've been waiting for for the last five years? 842 00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:19,400 And I take all the precautions that I can. 843 00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:24,320 I have a 12 gauge shotgun that's loaded with steel goose loads 844 00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:29,600 and would do a great job of shooting through my security screen 845 00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:31,040 if I need to. 846 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:35,080 If there is something that requires more ammunition, 847 00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:40,760 I have an AR15 with a combat optic on it, 848 00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:42,160 and 30 rounds. 849 00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:46,040 I have learnt a hard lesson. There is a big difference between... 850 00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,160 ..helping your country and helping your government. 851 00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,360 And to this day, I'd be happy to die 852 00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:57,640 if it was for a good cause for my country. 853 00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:59,880 But I wouldn't cross the street for my government. 854 00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:03,880 APPLAUSE AND CHEERING 855 00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,240 John Dodson still works for the ATF 856 00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:15,680 thanks to the laws that protect whistle-blowers. 857 00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:20,160 But he feels he's been sidelined and that his career is over. 858 00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:22,400 When I blew the whistle, I had been warned 859 00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:25,840 that this never works out well for the whistle-blower. 860 00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:27,880 I used to love going to work every day. 861 00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,680 Every single day, I loved going to work. 862 00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:33,960 Now, I don't get to do that job any more and it's not the same. 863 00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:37,840 You know, ultimately, it boils down to cops and robbers, 864 00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:41,280 good guys getting the bad guys and I thought we were the good guys. 865 00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:46,560 I had to take a long, hard look at myself, you know, 866 00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:49,840 and my agency, who I worked for, and the things that we did. 867 00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:52,400 Am I playing on the team that I thought I was playing on? 868 00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:54,480 Because everything looks different now. 869 00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:58,120 And I had to ask myself, you know...are we the bad guys?